Wilsonart Gibraltar integral bowls

[lensmith]

We received 96 wilsonart gibraltar integral bowls that have the external overflow attached, but there is no hole drilled from the bowl into the overflow assembly!!

We just talked to another fabricator who is saying that they have received the same type of bowls from Gibraltar and Meganite.

Anyone else experiencing this? Also, anyone else think it's a poor way for the Manufacturer to save a nickel? I'm not seeing why we should be finishing their manufacturing process for them.

It's not even so much the hole drilling, but these assemblies are tested under ANSI standards and NEMA standards. Overflows are rated by their ability to drain off, and the rate of flow is directly related to the size of the hole from the sink into the assembly. Fabricators who pick the wrong drill size could find themselves in trouble when a homeowner looks for someone to blame for a mold claim down the road. I have yet to see a technical bulletin prescribing the correct hole size to make the testing agency information valid.

What are your thoughts?

[John Turner]

Len, I have seen bowls come both ways, w/wo holes. Explanation was "End user option". Health care may not want a mold trap. Better water on floor than bio contamination. Maintainence and cleaning would become never ending issue.

I know you will go to the right person to get an answer in writing. Let us know please.

jt

[Joe Corlett]

Len:
I think John is onto something. I'm not sure, but some building codes may require no overflow for the reasons stated by John. It probably varies by area or use.

Code red,

Joe

[Andy Graves]

Len,

They used to mark the location the hole was supposed to be drilled. Is that still the case? We just used a 3/8" forstner bit and it worked great. Extra time though. Just think you only have to do 86. LOL

Andy

[lensmith]

I understand that they want to leave the option open, but the overflow systems are tested with a certain size hole for the overflow. I don't want to leave myself open to a claim in the future due to an incorrect hole size (even though I know the risk is minimal....lawyers and juries will latch on to anything.)

Anyone ever seen a written description of the proper hole size?

By the way, DuPont is still selling bowls with and without an overflow, so if the end user does want one, it comes finished. The plumbing code doesn't require overflows, but if a manuf. does supply an overflow, then it has to meet certain standards.

[John Turner]

Len, can,t the mfg provide the hole size data. If the issue is as delicate as you imply, then the mfg is the party to address hole size.

[lensmith]

John,

I am trying to find out the hole size, and if I do, I'll post it here.

In real life, it is not a delicate matter. If the hole is 3/8" or 1/2" really won't make any difference.

I once worked for a Framing contractor who was sued by a homeowners association (along with every other sub from the gardener to the roofer.) The lawsuit pertained to a roof leak. The jury found that the framer had a small part in the liability because their work was not "standard."

In this case, the lawyer produced a nailing schedule for plywood requiring nailing at 12" on center in the field. Some nailing was 11-1/2", some was 12-1/2", and different spacing in between. The lawyer was able to convince the jury that the framer was partially at fault because almost none of the nail spacing was exactly 12" on center as prescribed.

Anyone who has ever nailed a sheet of plywood to a stud or a rafter knows that you don't mark an "x" over the spot where each nail goes, and even if you did, the studs aren't perfectly straight.

Since then, I don't take the responsibility of figuring out what things should be. There is usually a designer, and the designer gets paid a fee for providing the information necessary to construct a widget. As far as is possible, I let the designer do the designing, and keep any potential liability where it belongs.

[GABE]

everyone,
the average faucet puts out 2 gals of water a minute. A 3/8 or 1/2" hole will only be able to handle at max of a 1/2 gal. a minute. How long would it take for the difference (1 1/2 gal a minute) to hit the floor?

Getting the towels ready,
Gabe

[lensmith]

Hi Gabe,

You're totally right, of course. As a resident of lawsuit happy southern California, I just try to stay out of the cross hairs at every possible occasion.

By the way, found out today that 1/2" is the correct hole diameter.

[Andy Graves]

Len,

Get a 1" hole saw and drill a hole. Be careful not to but the overflow thinggy off. This should take care of any water problem. LOL

Andy

[lensmith]

Good idea Andy!

Come to think of it, if 1" is good, 2" would be even better, right?

[Wags]

Face it, overflows really don't work. I learned that the hard way in my own bathroom. If they were so imperative,why is the only place we have an overflow is in the bathroom. From what I understand in europe and most of the rest of the world they don't have overflows. They are also only a breeding ground for bacteria etc, I say lets all work to eliminate them, Even much of the cultured marble I am seeing comes with no overflow now. Heck I just bought a new house and the tub doesn't have an overflow. When I questioned this I was told code doesn't require it so they don't provide it.

[lensmith]

Wags,

You are 100% right, overflows are not required per the UPC. Once they are provided, they fall under performance regulations.

You know what would solve all the overflow problems overnight? If all solid surface manufacturers would eliminate them, and just sell overflows separately for those who wanted to install them, their use would disappear overnight.

If I could go to a specifier and say "there is no manufacturer who sells a bowl with an overflow attached" it would end there. The specifier would do an internet search, satisfy himself/herself that it's true, and that's it.

Len

[Wags]

Len

Yep.. and when I explain to an Architect or a Hospital why I feel its better to NOT have an overflow, most agree.