stacked edge

[Todd]

This question also originated on the "other site", but I wanted to see a little traffic here also.

The question was about Avonite "goldmine". Someone asked if the edge was stacked or vertical. The response was something like "We stacked it, we had to, it was a bullnose."

I use a vertical edge for all profiles, including bullnose, but I've had people look at me sideways in the past when I've said that. Of course it is double thick, but avonite wouldn't allow a single thick vertical edge on any polyester. What gives? Why do people think you can't do a bullnose on vertical edge?

TW

[Andy Graves]

Todd,

First, make it so we can email you. Go to profile and make it so your email address appears when you post. I would send you the experiment for you to try.


As for stacked vs. vertical drop edges, everyone does them different. Some guys only do stacked, others do vertical, and we do both depending on the situation. We have a cnc which makes it a lot easier to do the stacked because the cnc cuts the edge buildup for you. And on some material, vertical drops will not look good. It is a problem inherent with larger particulate material.

Keep posting here,

Andy

[Todd]

I know we all do things our own way and for our own reasons, but I've heard the bit about the stacked edge for a bullnose a number of times and was wondering what the story was.

Hopefully my e-mail shows up this time.

I love this site and appreciate all you guys and gals do for ISSFA and the industry in general. Keep it up.

TW

[ChenWeiLun]

Hey, who put the polyester after special need materials, how do I take my hammer and bat that off? Special needs materials could be acrylic, epoxy etc, it all depends on applications. I actually do more acrylic in China now than poly but thats another story.

To answer your question, Andy is right, the drop sometimes causes a noticable difference due to the sheets joining in an orthoganol or 90 degree fashion. The stacked edge generally works better (tried and true old method), but more work if you dont have the CNC.

Things to watch out for. If some manufacturers dont sand the back (get the resin rich layer off) the stacked edge can cause variation, if so with certain manus try back to back, face to face. ALso if the material has experienced particulate asettling (striation) from poor manufacturing (have them call me, easy to fix) the same techingue can partially alleviate that.BUt some manus will not sand the back, its a material loss issue, and when that happens its an indication the bean counters are running that particular company.

With stacked edges on polyesters be sure to abrade, If you dont a sharp rap on the edge can casue the entire build up to unzip. Ive seen it happen with polys, with failure to abrade for no reason, glue it up come the next day in to find it laying on the floor, a victim of seam goblins.

Plus the stacked edge is a lot more material, it looks and feels stronger to the customer (and is if you test it vertical impact, etc. it is stonger) especially if he or she feels under the edge, its a solid several inches of material instead of the half inch drop.

My few thoughts on the subject, and Im not a fabricator, Im dangerous with a router, watch all fingers and toes. Just some thots from an old tekkie.

Regards,

Lenny

[lensmith]

Hi Lenny,

I'm the offending party... :shock: you can modify whatever you want in the topics you moderate, but since this is my bad, I'll remove it....

Sorry!!

Len

[wags9]

Avonite requires 1" where the front edge joints the deck. This can either be stacked or verticle. In the case of a drop apron the backer piece does not have to be the same height. The purpose of the 1" is to give greater adhesion with the deck. IF your V grooving than you can use a single drop edge if the edge is 1 1/2' or less. You can get Avonites fabrication guide online at Avonite.com

Why you would want to use a stacked edge on a bullnose is because your hogging off the majority of the material at the top and bottom radius. Acrylic and Polyester both have inherant qualities depending on the application. One is not better than the other in general, but one may be better for a particular application.

Thanks

[Andy Graves]

wags9,

You have to understand that many fabrication companies do it one way. Stacking the edge is really the only way you can do a good edge with all brands and colors. If you stand up vertically with some colors you will not have a good looking edge.

As far as a bullnose routing off the majority of the edge, what else would you do to eliminate that process. Either way you are still routing that material off?

Just curious,

Andy

[wags9]

Andy

I understand doing it one way, in fact I reccomend that to all my customers, and it is how I did it in my shop. I took the best procedures from all brands and that became my "standard". No manufacturer will have a problem if you "overbuild" a top. As a distributor of Avonite materials now I see firsthand the problems having different "standards" for different materials causes. Its much to confusing for shop personal to remember to do it differently with different products. As far as removing the material when doing a bullnose. If you have a single dropped edge and do a bullnose you have almost no material left, so that is not acceptable, obviously. I have very few problems with Avonite doing either stacked or verticle edges. The biggest problem I see on edges is when using our "glass" series, fabricators will sand the "strips" for build ups, using an orbital sander. What happens is they put dips in the strip and those dips show up as white areas since the adhesive fills the gaps and the adhesive reflects light differently, causing a white line. When I have them scuff sand the strips using a sanding block it eliminates that problem. Hope this clarifies what I was trying to get across.

Thanks

[Andy Graves]

Yea, that clears it up. So if you do a vertical drop and cut a bullnose, then you put another piece behind the first one to make is strong and meet warranty standards? Is this correct? This is what we do.

Andy

[wags9]

Yep.. thats it.