E-Stone are you ready for this???

[Dani]

Before photo #1 has 10µ Diamond scratch areas @ ½” X 1 ¼”

After photo #2 the plane is still the same and no burnt polyester.
The customer would never know they were there.

Dani

[Dani]

I spent 15 min on this repair using my new Polishing system for E-Stone to be available soon. It will also remove wheel marks and fine scratches on Granite and make all your edges on E-Stone and Granite look much better.

Dani

[sanitychaser]

Dani,

I am guessing that you can use this to top polish seams?

We have added stone/estone installs and the standard for seams in our area is, ehhhh, ok. With some g grips and a polishing system we could do some good work.


Chris

[Dani]

Chris,

I have not tried it on seams, but it should work great. With my system so there is no chance to dig out the polyester keeping the plane the same.

Dani

[premier]

Dani

Try it on Black This stuff Kicks But http://www.dtep.com/marble.htm



Mory

[Dani]

Mory,

My system is going to be used to repair an installed Black Caesarstone top in CA on Saturday. It is not a cover up, it a system to restore the factory finish so the top looks the same everywhere, and remove the customer complaint as well as all the scratches or dullness.

Dani

[FEDSAWDAVE]

See Alpha ES Pads or DPC EX pads. Work great. Been around for years.

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Mory, I'll put a can of PAMIR black & clear wax on UPS for you in the morning pro bono. Compare to Goddards.
Dave

[Dani]

All of you E-Stone guys know how well the products that are currently available work on the deck surface. If you were happy with the results I would not have spent the last year and a half researching and developing a product to fix the problems.

Dani

[fabwizard]

Dani,

I'm intrigued by what you've got there. I know for most of us fabricators its easy to get distracted when talkining about how to do something, because a million ideas surface on how to do something in every conversation. But guy's, Dani is not talking about a surface film polish but a deep surface abrading polish. One hides the other restores, I understand. Lets see if it works in the real world if it does can I get one PRO BONO?

fabwizard

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Quite frankly, when your numbers become what Mory's are. Mory, gets free stuff!

Back to Goddards polish. Mory is, from what I understand, doing what a lot of granite guys are doing in using an exceptionaly high quality wax to bring up a luster, not hide anything. Never tested Goddards but have with Pamir and it works beautifully.

Akemi has come out with a very nice repair kit (albeit expensive) that granite and e-stone guys buy. We don't sell it but the guys we talk to swear buy it.

Choices...know what I mean.

[Dani]

I guess some of you did not see where I said the Quartz crystals were scratch with a Diamond grinding wheel and I did not cover them up with some 6 dollar can of wax, I polished the scratches out of the Quartz crystals, totally restoring the finish in the area to the factory finish. Not a cover up, but a complete repair to the finish. My system is not a wax or a polish to cover anything up, it is a finishing system to polish out scratches in the Quartz crystals without destroying the surface plane of the bounding resin, and restoring the finish of the damaged area to look exactly the same as the factory finish on the rest of the deck. It is an abrasive finishing system that actually refinishes the deck, not a polishing wax to cover up the problem that will come back in a short while, but a one time fix with no call backs. And Yes choices are good, now a fabricator has another choice on how to fix the problem.

Dani

[premier]

Dani,

I was in a hurry when I posted that last post, but one of th stone guys that work for me carries a can of that and it works quite well. On a more serious note, I would love to try your product or even buy your pads so our installers would have them handy just in case. I figured if any one could figure our how to polish e-stone it would be you. We have only been doing stone for a short time, We recently moved into our new shop. 15,000 sq. ft. and we are running out of space fast. The stone and granite is growing leaps and bounds The granite and quartz at the present time is 8 fabricators, I should say polishers, and 2 installers. We are having nothing but fun Anyway back to your system. Send me a kit as soon as they are available. We will keep one in every truck. Later.

Mory

[FEDSAWDAVE]

No one is saying ANYTHING about using wax to cover anything up! Fine Italian waxes have been around forever to ENHANCE the look of stone. They work...

[premier]

Dave,

Send me a can. I'll give it a try. I have hired some extremely good fabricators. I started out getting out getting what I could and learned the hard way. Dani, your polishing system will work just fine. I have confidence in your developing this. When it comes to quick in the field repairs, small touchups, Goddards kicks butt. I've seen these guys use this on large areas and it may be a cover-up, but it sure looks good. It also works great on edges. Beaats pulling the top off and bringing it back to the shop. Remember, up until now no one has been smart enought to develop a field repair kit. Thanks,

Mory

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Yes they have Mory as it relates to field repair kits. See Akemi.

The sample has already been sent and I ordered a can of Goddards to test it myself as I've never used it. If you say it's great, I'm sure it is.

[premier]

Dave,

They also have a liquid. We just purchased a case of it for customers to use on their counters. The stuff in the can is kind of like Woody-Wax. The stuff they used to wax Woody's with. It's hard to get off. It's like Johnson's Paste Wax, but nothing a little elbow grease won't take care of. The stuff in a bottle is more like a carnauba wax. Its creamy and easy to get off. I'll be looking forward to try the stuff you are sending.

Thanks,
Mory

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Mory, if it works for you and you like it, great. But the "elbow grease" thing concerns me. Should not be hard to get off. A couple cans of Rock Doctor cleaner and polish sent your way to try should remedy this.

DISCLAIMER: Rock Doctor cleaner & polish is not used to fill in scratches but is used as a daily maintenance product.

[topssolid]

Dave,

Tell me how you would get that grinding wheel slip out of my customers Zodiac top, I don’t know but from what I have read here I think that Dani is really on to something.

tom

[Wags]

Anyone that has actually worked with Alpha pads know how they don't work on the surface when trying to match a factory finish, its why everyone tries to never touch the surface.

[lensmith]

Just a reminder, let's keep it friendly. We have two vendors in this thread both of whom have good industry knowledge and great service. This isn't an either/or choice, I can see that both products are useful, but for different applications.

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Agreed Len.

I have no doubt that as much as Dani puts in to a project that he'll have a system that works for fabricators. If in fact, this forum is what a forum should be about...IDEAS, then I'll continue to post materials & methods that I see working in shops around the country. I learn something new in this industry every day. It's called an open mind.

And Wags, I've seen fabricators use Alphas ES pads to blend. These are fabricators that have tons of experiance not a new hire who's never touched a top. As a matter of fact, Viper(I don't sell them!) has an ES pad that works quite well or so I'm told from several fabricators.

[fabwizard]

Dani,

I don't know alot but I do know a little. Most of what I know has come from using tools and systems or from talking to other fabricator friends I trust and incorporating thier experiences into mine. I know the differnce between a wax/polish and an abrading polish system. A wax/polish creates a deep brilliant appearance by use of a "wetted" surface. Any time you put water on a surface it creats a deep shiney look, think car commercials always wet pavement. Wax will do the same thing for a longer period because of its cling tenacity as expressed by Mory. Still, it is but a temporary fix due to the forces of friction and drying out and must be re-applied hence high hard maintainance. Surface scratches and general wear can be temporarily hidden by these products. An abrading system for removing deep or fine scarring in Quartz is another matter and quite different than stone. The two should not be confused. Quartz is one of the hardest minerals known to man and when combined with Polyesther resin poses a tooling dilema (the resin will scar far more easily) as it can load up on cutting rapidly. So any finishing tool for Quartz must take that into account and will have different qualities than a stone tool. Dani has locked into that truth and seems to have created a system based on those facts. If after your testing is complete and its performance is qualified Dani, let me know.

fabwizard

[SSmonster]

I trained many people in the fabrication of E-stone, I have only seen one guy that could polish the surface up to a satifactory finish, not even the guys in the dupont R&D building would attemp a surface polish. If Dani's system works this could be a huge contribution to the industry. Dani has invited me to his place in a couple of weeks to watch a repair, I'm very excited to see the results. As far as polishing the surface with a pad, it just doesn't work and is not recommended by any mfgr. Dave, I love ya but I just haven't seen anyone that can remove diamond scratched with a wax or a pad, the akemi system is nice but you can usually still find the repair.
Good luck Dani, I hope you have found the new "sliced bread".

[Dani]

Just to keep everyone informed the Black Caesarstone top in CA was repaired on Saturday. The repair look fantastic all the diamond wheel marks were gone, but the customer wanted the top to look shiner so the entire top was repolished with my system, I will add that the repair and polishing took a full day. When the fabricators finished they said the top looked fantastic. That was on Saturday, this is Wednesday and the customer has not called to say that she is unhappy with the repair or the look of her top. This is an example of saving an installed job from being a tear out and reinstall.

Dani

[FEDSAWDAVE]

SS Monster, I never said it was reccommended by any manufacture I simply said I've seen it done.

And the wax we were talking about HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH A REPAIR! It was Mory talkin about Goddards wax and me talkin about Pamir wax as bringing up a luster...that's all. I really wish people would read entire posts and not paraphrase.

BTW, love ya to!

[topssolid]

See Alpha ES Pads or DPC EX pads. Work great. Been around for years.

You did not say in this post I've seen it done, you say they work great.

SSmonster said "As far as polishing the surface with a pad, it just doesn't work and is not recommended by any mfgr. Dave, I love ya but I just haven't seen anyone that can remove diamond scratched with a wax or a pad, the akemi system is nice but you can usually still find the repair."

I think that SSmonster was just pointing out, is to not say something works great when the mfg. even say it doesn't work.

tom

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Yes Tom. I've seen it done. And like I said, it was not new hires but fabricators who have their own methods. I quit trying to change human nature a long time ago. If some of these guys say it works...sell me the pads Dave, then I'd be a fool not to. I only state what I see. If we all did it the same way, we'd be the Stepford fabricators.

Again, it's about choices. This countetop fabrication thing is not rocket science!

[FEDSAWDAVE]

Tom, here's another reality: Manufactures who have employees who have actually fabricated anything. It's a little differant in your shop than in some manufactures lab.

[ChenWeiLun]

Hi Lensmith,

I saw your immaculate admonition to chill dudes! My advice is to let em slug it out, and let the people who use the various methods post and reply as to the effectiveness versus cost. That can only result in truth and a good method of repair for the industry (regardless of fake posters)..heh heh.

Although I found this hilarious, because for just once, Im not the one being admonished....and it was nice to be a spectator. I love this site, as it is truly a resource to the industry. Kudos Len for making this miracle happen.

Best Regards to all,

Lenny

[SSmonster]

I stopped by Dani's shop to see his system run in person, very impressive! He put 2 diamond pad scratches in a piece of Cambria about 2 inches lang and 2 inches wide. Dan was able to remove the blemishes in about 15 minutes. The repair area actually became slightly glossier and deeper looking than the rest of the sheet. he could have easily polished the rest of the piece up to a higher shine. It looks like he is working on a back-up system that will enable you to knock the overshine back down to the original finish if you decide not to do the entire top.
This is a pretty simple straight forward system that even a new guy should be able to handle.
I'm going back to see the second part of the system once Dani has it perfected.
Good Job Dani, this is probably going to be a staple on the truck of anyone doing e-stone.
Thanks
Gordon

[Dani]

This is the piece of Cambria I scratched for Gordon,(Photo #1)after he left I repolished the same area with a buffer burning the resin, and if any of you have tried to repair Quartz you know what I am talking about. I did this to make the repair more difficult. If you look close you can see a 10” ring where the Quartz is popping out of the sheet. This is the problem with trying to repair E-Stone it has been almost impossible to match the finish of the rest of the sheet.

I then refinished the area about 12” X 12” and repolished with my system. Photos #2-3-4 are of the repaired piece. The repair area is on the left side about 2” from the edge and in the center of the 18” side of the 18” X 29” cutout. #2 top view, The lighter area on the right side is a cloud reflection. #3 low angle reflection view, #4 a different low angle reflection view. I am sure when Gordon comes by again he will post what he thinks of this repair.

Dani

[sanitychaser]

Dani,

What is the latest on this? We are putting in an 11' X 5' Zodiaq bianco carrera top in a few months. The kitchen is very clean and slick and there is going to be one big honkin' seam in that island.

Got a few months to practice and was curios how this was going.

Chris

[Dani]

Chris, I'm in the final stages.

I received questions about grinding wheel scratches and Acid damage so here is the repair.

I sanded an area with 125µ Diamond which is coarser than 120g sandpaper in 2 different directions, actually sanding a dip in 4 different spots. I also pored Muriatic Acid on the deck and left it on for 6 hours. I sanded out the areas feathering the dips in and refinished the top back to the factory finish I only worked on the damage areas on the left side of the keyhole cutout. The total repair took a little over an hour.

Dani

[Steve Lefebvre]

I don't think there is a lot of issues with polishing the surface of estone. Many members of the SFA have been doing that for a long time. Many grind and polish every seam on every material. The real trick is to bring the shine down to match the factory finish because hand polishing makes the salvaged area too shiny, as per Dani's post about the Ca job.

[fabwizard]

Steve,

Interesting comment. I just got off the phone with a close friend of mine who is with one of the largest SS, Stone and E-Stone fabrication shops I know of. He confirmed my understanding of the difference between Stone and E-Stone. First, you want to avoid damaging the surface of either because it is a hassle to repair, but a competent tradesman with finesse can do it... so it would seem. The difficulty with E-Stone lies in the fact that it is comprised of Quartz (very hard) and a polyesther binder (very soft in comparison). The trick to making a superior surface repair lies in smoothing down the quartz without removing to much polyesther or creating the Grand Canyon (a deviation in the surface of e-stone in low angle reflected light is obvious even to the visually challenged). The scratch is typically in the resin binder since not many things will scar quartz. With Dani's system you are really working the binder with minimal material removal, avoiding the Mariana Trench, as I understand it. Apparently it gives the operator doing the work the option of matching the factory fiinish or offering (at an upcharge?) an enhanced higher gloss which is what they did in the test repair. Dani, have I got this right?

[Dani]

Fabwizard,

You have it right.

That’s the problem with E-Stone finishing processes that have been available, they dig out the polyester creating an Orange peel effect. When the light reflects across the surface you see a very bumpy looking area where the repair was done, much like poring a little lacquer thinner on the hood of your car and watch the paint curl. The more you work on it the worse it looks and definitely no customer paying big bucks for their countertop would except that repair. The only fix is to tear out the damage top and replace it with a new top. This makes repairing E-Stone extremely costly for the fabricator.

My system is totally different. You are able to sand out scratches in the Quartz and poly, refinish the area and make the repaired area look the same as the untouched surrounding area of the deck. This changes everything, now instead of being a tear out and replacement, you are able to spot repair E-Stone for very little cost and match the factory finish on the rest of the deck, this means no Orange peel.

I have improved my repair time on the 125µ diamond scratches to 40 minutes. Gordon was by the other day and saw my repair on the last set of posted photos. I will let him tell you what he thinks of my repair.

Dani

[SSmonster]

Fabwizard,

You have it right.

That’s the problem with E-Stone finishing processes that have been available, they dig out the polyester creating an Orange peel effect. When the light reflects across the surface you see a very bumpy looking area where the repair was done, much like poring a little lacquer thinner on the hood of your car and watch the paint curl. The more you work on it the worse it looks and definitely no customer paying big bucks for their countertop would except that repair. The only fix is to tear out the damage top and replace it with a new top. This makes repairing E-Stone extremely costly for the fabricator.

My system is totally different. You are able to sand out scratches in the Quartz and poly, refinish the area and make the repaired area look the same as the untouched surrounding area of the deck. This changes everything, now instead of being a tear out and replacement, you are able to spot repair E-Stone for very little cost and match the factory finish on the rest of the deck, this means no Orange peel.

I have improved my repair time on the 125µ diamond scratches to 40 minutes. Gordon was by the other day and saw my repair on the last set of posted photos. I will let him tell you what he thinks of my repair.

Dani

I am in no way claiming to be the e-stone expert but I have taught enough classes and experimented enough with surface polishing that I can say that watching Dani do the repair amazed me, it was not able to be found even in the natural light of an opened bay door.
I have nothing to gain by giving Dani these testimonials, I just believe that the guy has come up with something that can be an excellent tool for any e-stone fab.
Dani and I have had our share of disagreements but I have to agree the guy is on to something pretty kool here.

[markm]

Dani,

Your method seems impressive and intriguing. I can't wait to give it a try. While I have seen people polish the es successfully, it takes an extremly long amount of time. Most people (myself included) won't even attempt it.

Your product (if it works as you claim, and I'm sure it does) will revoultionize the es industry. I'd love to see one of your demonstrations. Will we be able to sample it soon??

[Dani]

Mark

I will have a few kits available the end of this week, I need to add a few types of repairs to my training DVD so it may a little longer.

Dani

[Dani]

I am looking for different types of damage to E-Stone, if you have one send me an e-mail or post it here. That way I will know about the problem so I can work on a repair solution. I will add the repair to my training DVD to help anyone with the same problem.

Dani Homrich

[markm]

Hi Dani!

I do a fair amount of ES and most of the problems I encounter are scratches due to the handeling of material. I would love to try your kit and DVD. Please let me know when its available.

[Dani]

Mark,

Handling scratches are very easy to fix in as little as 15 minutes, and if the scratches are only in the poly you can fix them in 5 minutes or less.

Dani

[markm]

Thanks Dani. I sent you an e-mail today with my info.

[Dutch]

Hello Dani,

will you attend the next Surface Show in Vegas? It would be great if you could demonstrate your system at one of the seminars or at the exhibition. Please let me know when your system with DVD is ready and feel free to give me call if you're somewhere near Amsterdam :)

best regards,

Norman Saarloos
www.erbi.nl (http://www.erbi.nl)

[Dani]

Norman,

I will be at the surface show in Vegas. I have not been ask to do a seminar, but I will be doing a demo on the system. I now have full kits with a DVD in English and cases available. If you call Michigan near Amsterdam, then I will give you a call.

Thanks,

Dani

[Dani]

Important E-Stone update: This is a procedure change to reduce polishing time by at least 50%

I have a new DVD on the updated use for the E-Stone Restorer, for all of you that received an E-Stone repair kit before 11-19-2007. I will send you the DVD for the new procedure when using the E-Stone Restorer. E-mail me at danidesigns@sbcglobal.net or Fax to 248-299-9248 with your mail-to address, that means if you use a PO Box I need that because they are going to be sent by US Mail.

Thank you,
Dani Homrich
Dani Designs

[Wags]

Dani

I was at a shop today that purchased one of your Stone kits. He has not had a chance to use it yet, but said he will be later this week. Looked interesting to say the least. This person was located in Witman, Az , so you know who it is. Id say good luck, but don't think its Luck, its hard work and knowledge. Congratulations would be more in order, and thanks

[Dani]

Wags,

It is great to see you back on the BB. We all have missed your input and knowledge.

Dani

[SFEditor]

Hey Dani:

Just wanted to let you know your poster is on it's way. I just got the few dozen remaining copies of it from deep storage.

Take care,

Kevin